Posts by Disillusioned JW

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks TD for your post about the distance between the Gumby figure and the cup. Your inclusion of the photos makes it simple and very easy to explain matters to Indoubtbigtime and other readers.

For about a week I had been thinking along the same lines pertaining the distance between the Earth and the Moon in the NASA photos, but it was trying to think of how to state it simply without me making and uploading any photos (I hadn't even though of taking pictures). Expressing the ideas only in words seemed more tedious and complex to me. I was thinking of saying something along the lines of the following.

"The appearance of the relative size of the Earth and the Moon varies by the distance to the closest of the two celestial objects, especially when one object is vastly greater than the other. Thus, if a camera is very close to the Moon (such as by being on a spacecraft on the Moon or in a low orbit of the Moon), then the Moon looks much larger than the Earth even though the Earth is actually much larger. That is because the relative distance of the camera to the Earth is much greater than that of the camera to the Moon. But, the further away the camera is from both the Earth and Moon, then the Earth is seen as being much larger, because the camera's distance to the Earth on a relative (or percentage) basis is much more nearly the same as camera's distance from the Moon, coupled with the fact that the Earth is much larger than the Moon."

I also thought of suggesting to Indoubtbigtime the following. "Do an experiment of objects in your home, where one object is much larger than another, and then without moving the objects, vary your distance from the pair of objects to see what effect that has on the apparent relative size of the objects and the apparent distance between the pair of objects." At the time I wasn't in the mood of wrihting the above (or something like it) to Indoubtbigtime, especially since I later got a different impression of what Indoubtbigtime thought was the problem with NASA's photos, thus instead I made post about how the Sun and Moon can appear to be very close to a tree or a rooftop, despite actually being immensely away from a tree or a rooftop.

34

The Watchtower—Study Edition | April 2023

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

study article 19. how can we strengthen our faith in jehovah’s promise of a new world?.

17 many servants of jehovah have applied jehovah’s counsel to “keep in expectation”—even for decades.

louise, for example, began serving jehovah in 1939. she says: “at that time, i thought armageddon would come before i finished high school.

Disillusioned JW

Not only should the WT be blamed for the "false expectations'' and the ''waiting accounts'' but also the New Testament/Covenant Bible itself for it teaches the underlying false expectations (including urging people to wait expectantly) and the false teachings of the nearness of the great tribulation, Armageddon, coming of Christ, and a new order. See the following NT Bible verses: Matthew 24:42-44, Matthew 25:13, Revelation 1:1, 22:18, 20. The Bible is also to blame.

If it wasn't for what the 'Holy' Scriptures Bible (both the OT and NT) itself also says, I would never have accepted the false expectations proclaimed by the WT and I would never had accepted the WT's teaching of urging (through its literature and public meetings) me (and others) to wait for the proclaimed events to happen.

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding why so many people believe Jesus came (and/or will come) at some point with kingly power, and why so many people are religious see the article at https://onlysky.media/pzuckerman/is-atheism-unnatural-2/ which is called "Is atheism unnatural?" It is written by Phil Zuckerman, who is the author of Living the Secular Life and of Faith No More. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Zuckerman says Zuckerman was born "... to secular Ashkenazi Jewish parents ...". It also says the following. "His research interests are secularity, atheism, apostasy, and Scandinavian culture. ... The American Humanist Association has featured Zuckerman as a speaker on rising irreligion in the United States."

At https://onlysky.media/pzuckerman/it-is-time-for-the-end-of-zionism/ Zuckerman has an article called "It is time for the end of Zionism" and thus it is somewhat relevant to the topic of "Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?". In the article he says has "... come to embrace post-Zionism" and he says that part of the definition of post-Zionism is that "... it rejects the vile notion that a magical deity plays favorites with certain peoples, granting some vast parcels of land but not others ...". His article also says the following.

"For those of us who embrace secular humanistic values such as empathy, compassion, fairness, justice, and democracy, post-Zionism is an essential part of the journey toward making this world a better, more humane place."

16

Are Both The JW And The Ex-JW Community a Cult?

by Vanderhoven7 in

charlie ryde writes:.

let us use the same bite model for determining if something is a cult to both being a jw and being ex-jw.

mind you this is a short summary.. b- behavioral control.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: Where my prior post says 'KJV" it should say "NKJV".

Further Correction: Right after I refreshed this page my prior post on this page showed a change of my quotes of "LORD" to "Lord", but the post should say "LORD". After that happened it was too late to correct that post, thus I made this post.

16

Are Both The JW And The Ex-JW Community a Cult?

by Vanderhoven7 in

charlie ryde writes:.

let us use the same bite model for determining if something is a cult to both being a jw and being ex-jw.

mind you this is a short summary.. b- behavioral control.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: For some strange reason my quote of Micah 4:2 from the NIV says "Lord" in my post though I was copying and pasting from a source which says "LORD" (though with the source having the letters "ORD" of "LORD" being in smaller size than the letter "L" of "LORD").

Additional information: https://www.studylight.org/commentary/zechariah/8-23.html quotes Clarke's Commentary of Zechariah 8:23 as saying the following. "Verse Zechariah 8:23. Ten men - shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew — The converts from among the Gentiles shall be to the Jews as ten to one. But ten may here signify a great number, without comparison. And from this scripture it appears as if the Jews, converted to God, should be the instruments of converting many Gentiles. See on Isaiah 3:6."

Micah 4:2 (KJV) in its immediate context shows that Micah 4:2 refers to the time of the rule of the messianic kingdom. It says the following.

'4 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
2 Many nations shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 He shall judge between many peoples,
And rebuke strong nations afar off;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into [a]pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree,
And no one shall make them afraid;
For the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken.'

16

Are Both The JW And The Ex-JW Community a Cult?

by Vanderhoven7 in

charlie ryde writes:.

let us use the same bite model for determining if something is a cult to both being a jw and being ex-jw.

mind you this is a short summary.. b- behavioral control.

Disillusioned JW

The short answer is "no", at least in regards to those ex-JWs who are atheists and/or agnostics.

Vanderhoven7 in at least one way the Jehovah's Witnesses are much like the ancient religious Jews of the Hebrew Scriptures, in that the JWs believe they have the only true religion and the only true form of worship. The Jewish Hebrew Scriptures teaches that pure worship of Yahweh Elohim (aka, Jehovah God) is the only true worship and it teaches that the religion of the Jewish Hebrew Scriptures is only true religion. Micah 4:2 of the Jewish Hebrew Scriptures says that Gentiles from the around the world will worship Yahweh at his Jewish temple during the reign of the Jewish Messiah. Micah 4:2 (NIV) says the following.

'Many nations will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.'

Zechariah 8:23 (ASV) says the following. "Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass , that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, they shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." Zechariah 8:23 (Douay-Rheims Bible) says the following. "Thus saith the Lord of hosts : In those days, wherein ten men of all languages of the Gentiles shall take hold, and shall hold fast the shirt of one that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

The JWs also worship the same God of the ancient Jews, namely Yahweh/Jehovah to the exclusion of Jesus Christ.

Also note the following. The Jewish scriptures (such as in Daniel) say a Jewish Messiah (worshiping Yahweh/Jehovah) will rule over all of the gentile nations. The JWs say a 144,000 JWs will rule with the Jewish Messiah (Jesus Christ) over all the Earth and the JWs say Jesus Christ worships Jehovah as God.

The WT's JW religion gets its idea of exclusivity from the Jewish Hebrew-Aramaic 'Holy' Scriptures.

Much of the core of the problem of the JW religion comes from the Jewish Hebrew-Aramaic-Greek Bible itself and its portrayal of a Jewish concept of a God of vengeance who demands exclusive devotion and strict obedience. Those ex-JWs who reject engaging in such worship are thinking and acting sensibly and are no part of some religious cult.

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks peacefulpete for your post, including the quote from II Esdras.

Thanks Reasonfirst for your post. Too much western Gentile culture is influenced upon the ancient falsehoods and outright nonsense found in the Bible written by ancient religious Jews. In contrast, not enough of western Gentile society accepts the scientific knowledge and scientific theories of modern day atheistic/agnostic nonreligious ethnically Jewish scientists.

For example, Carl Sagan was an agnostic (or weak atheist) nonreligious ethnically Jewish scientist who taught that evolution (cosmological, chemical, and biological) and climate change is true, yet so many of western Gentile society rejects those ideas and believes in the Jewish Scriptures instead.

For another example, the ethnically Jewish theoretical scientist named Albert Einstein who believed that the universe is ancient said he did not believe in a personal God, yet so many Gentiles believe in the nonexistent God of the Jewish Scriptures while rejecting the truths that the Universe and Earth are billions of years old and that life has existed on Earth for a great many hundreds of millions of years.

The Jewish Hebrew Scriptures have passages saying that the kingdom of a Jewish Messiah (of a Jewish God, Yahweh Elohim) will rule over the gentiles. Why should those of us who are Gentiles adopt the religion (such as Christianity which started out Jewish) which teaches such - especially since much of the religion (whether in its non-Christian or Christian forms) makes no sense, has numerous outrageous fictitious 'god tales', and has no confirmation by modern science?

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, just as there are Sun rises (and Moon rises) by the horizon of the Earth from the vantage place of the Earth due to the movement of the Earth, there are Earth rises by the horizon of the Moon from the vantage place of the Moon due to the movement of the Moon. It is thus not surprising to see authentic photos of an Earth rise by the horizon of the Moon from the vantage place of spacecraft's camera on certain places of the Moon (or in orbit of the Moon).

See https://www.cnet.com/science/space/heres-the-nasa-artemis-i-earth-rise-video-weve-been-waiting-for/ and https://earthsky.org/space/what-would-earth-look-like-from-the-moon/#:~:text=Also%20consider%20the%20moon%27s%20slow,appear%20to%20rise%20or%20set. . See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise#:~:text=The%20Earth%20%22rose%22%20because%20the,quite%20unlike%20moonrises%20on%20Earth. .

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, I don't see any problem between the apparent distance between the Earth and Moon in the two pictures posted by TD on page 15 of this topic thread. That is because when a person looks at objects, ones that are in space, from the vantage point of the Moon or the Earth it is very hard to judge the distance between the objects. That is because we don't see a series of objects between what is on Earth all the way to what is on the moon (or between whatever other orbs [such as stars, planets, or moons] in space we are looking at), and as a result we don't have much to guide our perspective vision to form an accurate interpretation of the distance between the objects.

For example, when I look up at the moon from my home and see trees in my neighborhood in the foreground, with the tree tops aligned directly in my line of sight with the Moon, it looks like the Moon is very close to the tree tops (but with the Moon looking very small though we know if is very large). It looks like the Moon in only an inch or centimeter away or less, but obviously the actual distance is vastly greater. It looks like I would be able to grab the Moon from the sky if I climbed the tree and reached out the Moon, yet we know I wouldn't be able to grab the Moon from any place on Earth.

Likewise if align directly in my sight the rooftop of my home with that of the Moon or the Sun, the Moon or the Sun can look like it is only a centimeter or less from the rooftop (but with the Moon or the Sun looking very small, like the size of a coin), but if I were to climb onto the roof I obviously wouldn't be able to reach the Moon or the Sun. Right Indoubtbigtime? Have you also noticed such Indoubtbigtime? Try the experiments yourself.

If I look at objects (including ones in my front yard, or anyplace on a the city block I am standing at) through my binoculars (which has a magnification of 10 times) the objects look much closer to me and much closer to each other, than they appear without me looking at them through binoculars, yet the images I see through the binoculars are not fake. Right Indoubtbigtime?

In the bottom picture (posted by TD on page 15 of this topic thread) the Earth looks much smaller than in top picture (of the same post), and that is probably mostly due to the degree of magnification. I am claiming that those pictures (made by Russia) posted by TD are not fakes, likewise for the pictures supplied by NASA showing both the Moon and the Earth. Indoubtbigtime I claim thus your £200, but since it is up to you decide if a specific picture is fake or not and since you are skeptical (or at least claim to be skeptical) of NASA's and Russia's pictures which were shown to you, I don't believe you will give me the £200.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

TonusOH, Indoubtbigtime did say to doubt everything. He/she showed us that we should consider that someone making posts on this site might be a troll.